When using zbrush with max, I found it necessary to save the mesh in zbrush, bring it into max, then save out the mesh again. This prevents issues such as wrong vertex count, and moving of the mesh during a morph. In order to create the upper lip down morph target, which involves a kind of rotation inwards, I applied an edit poly modifier to the base mesh. Then I went to vertex sublevel and used a combination of soft select(with edge distance set to around 6 or 7), and then, applying the FFD 4X4X4 modifie, I rotated the points around and out. I found that I could then give the lip that rotation it needs as it comes down and in. Not even zbrush made that possible. The ffd modifier is all powerful in this kind of situation. I have tried using bones for lip manipulation, (Upper Lip Up etc.) but my favorite technique is to use the edit poly vertex soft selection tool, combined with ffd modifier. Pick vertex near point of movement. edge distance 8, fall off 20.Gently move these upwards. Press ctrl and add points until roughly right shape. Continue to add more points using ctrl key. Apply relax a few times (feature of edit poly modifier) until smoothed out. Apply FFD modifier to refine shape. Use paint selection tool to further increase selection refinement . When finished, go to top of stack and select collapse all. DO NOT FORGET, WHEN GETTING COPIES OFF THE RIGGED MESH, TO FIST CLONE, THEN COLLAPSE, BEFORE MOVING IT OFF OR IT WILL SIMPLE MOVE BACK TO RIG. There are fundamentally two approaches to making assymetric morph targets: one is to make one side of the morph then use the skin wrap technique to create other side. I found this is unreliable, and often the mesh would be mangled. The other approach is to create a symmetric morph in zBrush or max, then simply use my split morph script to seperate the morphs. I Found this to be the more useful tack. Technique for making assymetric morph targets: 1.Make symmetric morph. 2.Place vol select between edit poly and morpher. 3. Move gizmo and using soft select to weight influence of morpher.Press invert.MAKe copies,collapse. I have created a script that automates this process called 'split morphs'. ALTERNATE WORK FLOW FOR UPPER LIPS USING zBRUSH: STAGE ONE: WORK FLOW FOR ISOLATING THE UPPER LIP FOR THE THE uPPER LIP UP MORPH PROCESS; 1. Firstly, I place an unwrap uvw on top of base mesh poly. 2.Then select a group of uv polys around the LOWER lip, using paint selection.Open edit uvs. 3. Send the poly group to Uv space +1. This creates two seperate uv groups for the model. 4.In Zbrush,press 'group by uvs' and use this to isolate the upper lip. 5. Then proceed to move the upper lip up with symmetry on, being careful not to bunch up the poly above the lip too much. If it appears that the symmetry isn't on, select local symmetry. 6. when finished, press 'Auto groups' to create a single group mesh. 7.Bring back into max , turn off unwrap uvw map modifier,place morpher on mesh, use new mesh as target, collapse and use as morph target. Once done, use the split morph script I wrote to split them into left and right morphs. STAGE TWO: USING THIS TECHNIQUE FOR LWR LIP DOWN: 1. HAving islolated the lower lip region with uv map,take into Zbrush. 2. Select this region, and using the move tool, with the largest brush setting, move it all down. 3. BE BOLD! Don't muck around or you will mess it up! Just push the damn thing down, filling out the lips a bit on the way. Click on Auto groups and save as obj. 4.Back in max, use relax on the corners if need be. NON-ZBRUSH TECHNIQUES: WORK FLOW FOR LWR LIP UP: 1.In max, select point in center, then soft select a region enclosing lwr lip. 2.Apply FFD modifier. 3. Move up first, selecting all points, then rotate in. 4. Using selections of points on the FFD, move up and rotate the sections near the lip corners. 5.SPlit using offset around 3.7 and fall-off of 1.2 - 1.5 OTHER TECHNIQUES TRIED; RNARROW and LNARROW Morphs: This is particularly challenging,as it involves both a movement in laterally plus a movement outwards, combined with a rolling out of vertices. There are also problems when combining these as they tend to pinch in the centre as the shapes double up. I found it best to tackle it in sections: 1. First, Create the lower lip vertices rollout. This is done by placing an edit poly modifier on top of original mesh, and, using soft selection, choose a point and adjust its sphere of influence. Slowly rotate vertices down (no need for ffd modifier)..and at the same time, move them outwards using split views : one left, one front view. 2. Having moved around the lower right area of lip, clicking on points and rotate them until they look right, go back to base mesh and start again, this time, doing the same for the upper lip. 3. Finally, choose a corner point on the lip and move towards centre of face using soft select. 4. So you should have three basic shapes - one corner in, one lower lip roll out, one upper lip rollout. 5. No go and create all the opposite morphs using skin wrap. NOTE: When making the opposite morphs, create the morph on the mirrored mesh with the base mesh as target, using fACE deformation but you must create another base mesh from the original rigged mesh before using skin wrap. In other words, do not use the same mesh you used in making the morph target on the mirrored mesh. THis is a quirk of the feature I don't understand, but there you go! 6. Now, place morpher on base mesh and choose the six shapes as targets. Adjust all of them until you have the right combinations. One for the Rnarrow and one for the Lnarrow. Create one stack for each of these,making sure before you do this that the combination of L and R narrow gives a proper full narrow, without any pinching in the middle. This is done by gradually bringing in the 'corner in' morph for each of the other morphs, to avoid crashing in the middle. 7. Go back once again and copy base mesh, place morpher on it and then use this completed shape as a target. THE TONQUE The tonque is best done using an FFD box (8X8 is a good figure) modifier. This is quicker and feels more natural than skining bones and makes it easy to stretch the tonque where its needed. Look at the tonque in situ. Open the mouth and move the tonque where approriate. Make copies,collapse, and use as morph targets for the orignal mesh. Then Delete the original morph targets so the meshes are stored in the morpher on the tonque ready for use in the final head.